Curse

Short · Oct 27, 2009, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

Destroying SF will rock GW for a little while, but I'm sure that players will find something else to do after it's rendered less effective.

This. There isn't going to be a MASSIVE ECTO PRICE RISE ZOMG THEY COST 450K EACH. They'll go up, to what they were before as will shards and the rest, people will just use a different build and it'll all stabilise again. GW WON'T DIE.

Reformed · Oct 27, 2009, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by toocooltang

If you really thing DOA is impossible without SF or ursan, you clearly need to go read wiki. While you are on wiki there are several builds that will tell you how to complete DOA without either of the previously stated skills. DOA is dead for pugs, if you want to do DOA there are many guilds that specialize in DOA(meaning they know the area, not that they read the wiki build and just roll there faces on the keybaord).

Second this...I do casual DoA with 1-2 guildies from time to time and, brace yourself, we don't use SF at all! The rewards down there are crap when I can just powertrade for braces so believe it or not we just do it to screw around when we are bored. SF is so much more limited in it's scope than Ursan ever was it's not even fair to compare the two. There is also no denying that the Ursan nerf devastated that elite mission.

I think the rest of your post is right on track too.

Shut A You Face · Oct 27, 2009, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Instead of killing SF...why not look at another way of dealing with SC....
Take out or change the way consets work. That must be easier than changing the way the skill works.
Just a thought...flame away.

reaper with no name · Oct 27, 2009, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk_

SF is nerfed, here comes speed clear build #387, except it takes 10 minutes longer and is slightly harder to do properly.

End result:

1) 'Normal' players still don't get to play.
2) Speed clears take longer.

And in the worst case scenario:

3) New speed clear needs a lot more skill, so newbies get excluded for not knowing how to do it properly.

So, remind me again how nerfing SF is supposed to help normal players?

There is only two ways that your precious Balancedway will ever see use in Elite Areas: you join a casual Guild, or Elite areas get nerfed so hard that PuGways are actually viable.

Wow, I didn't realize that Guild Wars was actually just called The Underworld. I mean, who would've known that Shadow Formers see absolutely no use outside of speed clears and dungeon running?

I said it before and I'll say it again: As long as the profitable areas are farmable/runnable, your Balancedway builds will be laughed at. Always. As long as there is a reason for people to farm those areas repeatedly and quickly, your random builds will always be excluded.

Really? You mean near-invulnerability isn't useful outside of SCs? How strange. Especially since even Anet admits that it's now being (ab)used outside of those things.

own age myname · Oct 27, 2009, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

Really? You mean near-invulnerability isn't useful outside of SCs? How strange. Especially since even Anet admits that it's now being (ab)used outside of those things.

Actually it really isn't useful outside of SCs/farming. Who really H/H's with SF? Farming is such a minority of the game, but it's where people seem to freak out on. Amazing.

toocooltang · Oct 27, 2009, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by own age myname

Actually it really isn't useful outside of SCs/farming. Who really H/H's with SF? Farming is such a minority of the game, but it's where people seem to freak out on. Amazing.

wrong wrong and more wrong.

SF is used in the luxon faction farming

SF is also used to run players to different outposts in the game. This was done before SF but was much harder to do and more expensive.

SF is also used to solo missions (gate of madness anyone?)

The fact that DOA, the pinnacle of elite areas in Guildwars can be completed on a lunchbreak from school is extremely disappointing. Farming has and always will be a part of guilds but never have I seen a single skill come to dominate the whole game like shadowform. Sure back in the proph only days you could 55 alot of stuff, but the truely good farms were quickly nerfed. Really there has never been any single build like a SF that has been so versitle you can tank the hardest elite area, you can deal massive ammounts of damage vs many times of foes, run to any outpost in the game, farm any boss you want, and complete all the dungeons in the game solo.

The closest thing is 600 smite but even that is pretty limited and can require a team of 2 or 3 to do that and the bars aren't all very generic either. The reason why 600ing isnt a problem is a good balanced well organized team can easily beat out a 600 smite combo.

As far as nerfing cons would go, this would hurt everyone equally. If you decreased the IMS from cons to 15% everyone would run 5% slower. You could almost say that all clears, speed clears or balanced ways would take 5% longer if you really wanted to simplify it.

If you want to fix speed clears without nerfing SF, make sliver trigger 1 time per second, decrease the armor bonus for earth magic armor enchantments. Also decreasing the number of PVE skills allowed in bars from 3 to 2 would help alot. In my opinion PVE skills and cons were designed to enhanced builds and make act as buffs to players builds which would still be based on ingame skills. I don't think they were designed to dominate builds as almost the sole source of damage.

own age myname · Oct 27, 2009, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by toocooltang

wrong wrong and more wrong.

SF is used in the luxon faction farming

SF is also used to run players to different outposts in the game. This was done before SF but was much harder to do and more expensive.

SF is also used to solo missions (gate of madness anyone?)

1. Lol, that's funny. I've done MQSC runner, as a warrior, NO SF. *Gasp* Amazing eh?

2. Ok, running. True. It's more efficient then other builds, but it's not that much faster.

3. Almost the same concept of a SC, get things done faster then a normal group. It can also be done with various hero setups for fast times

Quote:

Originally Posted by toocooltang

The fact that DOA, the pinnacle of elite areas in Guildwars can be completed on a lunchbreak from school is extremely disappointing. Farming has and always will be a part of guilds but never have I seen a single skill come to dominate the whole game like shadowform. Sure back in the proph only days you could 55 alot of stuff, but the truely good farms were quickly nerfed. Really there has never been any single build like a SF that has been so versitle you can tank the hardest elite area, you can deal massive ammounts of damage vs many times of foes, run to any outpost in the game, farm any boss you want, and complete all the dungeons in the game solo.

DoA doesn't rely on SF. It could easily be run as a Obby Tank. It's really not that much different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by toocooltang

If you want to fix speed clears without nerfing SF, make sliver trigger 1 time per second, decrease the armor bonus for earth magic armor enchantments. Also decreasing the number of PVE skills allowed in bars from 3 to 2 would help alot. In my opinion PVE skills and cons were designed to enhanced builds and make act as buffs to players builds which would still be based on ingame skills. I don't think they were designed to dominate builds as almost the sole source of damage.

Might as well nerf SF then. Like you said with your con arguement, nerfing PvE skills hurts everyone. Cons, imo, are worse then PvE skills. At least for PvE skills you have to get a high rank.

Reformed · Oct 27, 2009, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by toocooltang

words

Hold on there buddy, hyperbole doesn't help make your case.

Germanway/Frenchway are the things to do if you want FFF and those rely on 600 teams. Outpost running is irrelevant and has been for a long time. The last 2 Desert tours I got (yes, I was lazy) were from a Necro of all things. As for Droks there is no reason a Dervish can't do that run just as well if not better than a permasin. GoM is what...18 mins HM with SF? You can come very close to that with H/H if you know what you are doing, no cons.

Nobody is doing full DoA on their lunchbreak and even if they did it wouldn't be with SF. Gloom or City maybe but not Foundry, an imbagon will always be a better option in there.

toocooltang · Oct 27, 2009, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by own age myname

1. Lol, that's funny. I've done MQSC runner, as a warrior, NO SF. *Gasp* Amazing eh?.

I am sure it can be done, but wiki says you need SF. Everyone knows wiki is the bible of guildwars *sarcasm*

Quote:

Originally Posted by own age myname

2. Ok, running. True. It's more efficient then other builds, but it's not that much faster.

Actually I have to disagree here, it is much faster because you dont fail as a runner that much. Pretty much nothing in the game will pose a reall challenge to you. The droks run was nerfed many times, i.e. water hexes, spirits, huge mobs with lots of KD, etc etc. Being slowed down as a runner hurts alot, espcially when you can be the target of spells and hit by a lvl 26 warrior.

Quote:

Originally Posted by own age myname

3. Almost the same concept of a SC, get things done faster then a normal group. It can also be done with various hero setups for fast times

That is the whole point, SCs dominate the game more than any other farms EVER have. Also why are they called speed [BOLD] CLEARS [/BOLD] You aren't actually clearing anything, all you do is fight the smallest number of foes possible so you can complete the quest or mission or objectives. When you say clear, I think it means you clear the entire area of foes, anyways that was way off topic sorry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by own age myname

DoA doesn't rely on SF. It could easily be run as a Obby Tank. It's really not that much different.

Yep, but an Obby tank cant provide enough dmg to clear city and gloom with just a bonder. Any obby tank also has to commit more skills, and often times a secondary prof to be a good tank. SF tanks really only need 2 skills be invincible. Both OBBY and Sin tanks need earth +AL enchants, but because the obby can still be wanted and attacked these are much much more important. The Sin tanks still have plenty of room to bring incredable broken shadowstep skills (recall anyone) and they also take enough damage to solo the Fury, both something that I think and OBBY tank cant do.

While a truely elite guild, with elite players in that guild can still complete DOA in less than any hour with an OBBY tank, the SF tanks are much much easier to use for the shadowsteps and damage they can provide. Oh yea obby tanks run slow, sins dont.

Quote:

Originally Posted by own age myname

Might as well nerf SF then. Like you said with your con arguement, nerfing PvE skills hurts everyone. Cons, imo, are worse then PvE skills. At least for PvE skills you have to get a high rank.

Really they can keep SF permantly maintable but the problem is when you combine cons, shadowstepping, PVE skills and the earth magic skills it makes it way over powered. SF is great for solo nich farming but when almost every build out there "requires SF" it needs to be toned down to be on equal levels of other options. The other big advantage of SF too is that with CONS you dont need a secondary prof to maintain it, which compaired to terra tanks is a huge advantage

Dusk_ · Oct 28, 2009, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by toocooltang

I am sure it can be done, but wiki says you need SF. Everyone knows wiki is the bible of guildwars *sarcasm*

Wiki says, and I quote:

"Pretty much any good runner build will do, regardless of profession. This spot is very flexible."

Quote:

Actually I have to disagree here, it is much faster because you dont fail as a runner that much. Pretty much nothing in the game will pose a reall challenge to you. The droks run was nerfed many times, i.e. water hexes, spirits, huge mobs with lots of KD, etc etc. Being slowed down as a runner hurts alot, espcially when you can be the target of spells and hit by a lvl 26 warrior.

So...as I said, SF just makes things faster, it doesn't break things.

Nerf SF...and you can still run. Huh. Funny that.

Quote:

That is the whole point, SCs dominate the game more than any other farms EVER have. Also why are they called speed [BOLD] CLEARS [/BOLD] You aren't actually clearing anything, all you do is fight the smallest number of foes possible so you can complete the quest or mission or objectives. When you say clear, I think it means you clear the entire area of foes, anyways that was way off topic sorry.

Yes...but SF is not the root cause of those speed clears. Which is what I've been repeating ad nauseum. You nerf SF, and you still have speed clears, just ones that are a little bit slower.

Quote:

Yep, but an Obby tank cant provide enough dmg to clear city and gloom with just a bonder. Any obby tank also has to commit more skills, and often times a secondary prof to be a good tank. SF tanks really only need 2 skills be invincible. Both OBBY and Sin tanks need earth +AL enchants, but because the obby can still be wanted and attacked these are much much more important. The Sin tanks still have plenty of room to bring incredable broken shadowstep skills (recall anyone) and they also take enough damage to solo the Fury, both something that I think and OBBY tank cant do.

And the point still remains, SF is not the cause of speed clears, just the most efficient at doing them.

Nerfing SF causes build shifts, not a game change.

Quote:

While a truely elite guild, with elite players in that guild can still complete DOA in less than any hour with an OBBY tank, the SF tanks are much much easier to use for the shadowsteps and damage they can provide. Oh yea obby tanks run slow, sins dont.

See my last two replies, because this is getting repetitive.

Quote:

Really they can keep SF permantly maintable but the problem is when you combine cons, shadowstepping, PVE skills and the earth magic skills it makes it way over powered. SF is great for solo nich farming but when almost every build out there "requires SF" it needs to be toned down to be on equal levels of other options. The other big advantage of SF too is that with CONS you dont need a secondary prof to maintain it, which compaired to terra tanks is a huge advantage

And see the one before.

Nerfing SF does not "help the game", it just slows it down. The same problems you people are all whining about will still be there.

toocooltang · Oct 28, 2009, 05:00 AM // 05:00

No matter how you look at it the current PVE meta is extremly stale and boring, maybe if they nerf SF or some of the support skills invovled then you might see a meta change. Also extremely fast game play isn't a problem if there is alot of content, we all know thats not true for guildwars.

Dusk you are correct nerfing SF won't make "speed clears" impossible but it will greatly reduce the number of people completing them, their locations, and greatly increase the difficulty. Really the true advantage of SF is the fact that it allows for great bar compression. You have 5 or 6 slots and a secondary prof for, WHATEVER you want, running, damage dealing, damage reduction, healing. It also allows you to ignore large mobs that most other teams have to fight through simple because you are immune to most of the PVE monsters. The general tactic for most speed clears is fight as little as possible and do the most damage in the shortest amount of time so when you have to kill its fast. I am sure any elite SC guild out there will tell you that if you want to go faster you need to fight less.

If SF is nerfed I don't think dungeon speed clears will be possible anymore. UWSC maybe possible but before SF got huge terratanks did most of the work. I am not sure if the new spawns will still allow terra tanks to do the quests. Also part of the old UWSCs was a 3 ursan 1 monk team for vale and mnts, this obviously is no longer feasable. I really have no idea, I have done most SCs once just to see what they are all about and never do them agian because its boring.

You also point out that SF isn't the cause of most speed clears its just the best way to do things. Well if it is so good that 95% of all the elite area farms are composed of the same basic builds for almost 18 months, dont you think thats a little OP and should be fixed? (SF is the core of every elite build, the only thing that has changed is the dmg source, but its still tank and spank)

The point about SF making running easy is that the only running builds were vow of silence dervishes, vow of silence lasts for 10 seconds, 12 with a 20% enchant mod. Barely enough time to recast it, also its worth while to note that its extremely hard for a inexperianced runner to do that. Now'a'days any old sin can run you anywhere aslong as they press 1 2 3 every 25 seconds or so.

Dusk_ · Oct 28, 2009, 07:20 AM // 07:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by toocooltang

No matter how you look at it the current PVE meta is extremly stale and boring, maybe if they nerf SF or some of the support skills invovled then you might see a meta change. Also extremely fast game play isn't a problem if there is alot of content, we all know thats not true for guildwars.

Fast game play is never a problem if people want fast gameplay.

Quote:

Dusk you are correct nerfing SF won't make "speed clears" impossible but it will greatly reduce the number of people completing them, their locations, and greatly increase the difficulty. Really the true advantage of SF is the fact that it allows for great bar compression. You have 5 or 6 slots and a secondary prof for, WHATEVER you want, running, damage dealing, damage reduction, healing. It also allows you to ignore large mobs that most other teams have to fight through simple because you are immune to most of the PVE monsters. The general tactic for most speed clears is fight as little as possible and do the most damage in the shortest amount of time so when you have to kill its fast. I am sure any elite SC guild out there will tell you that if you want to go faster you need to fight less.

If SF is nerfed I don't think dungeon speed clears will be possible anymore. UWSC maybe possible but before SF got huge terratanks did most of the work. I am not sure if the new spawns will still allow terra tanks to do the quests. Also part of the old UWSCs was a 3 ursan 1 monk team for vale and mnts, this obviously is no longer feasable. I really have no idea, I have done most SCs once just to see what they are all about and never do them agian because its boring.

Okay, let's assume that things like dungeon speed clears are not possible after SF is nerfed. Why is that good? Unlike UWSC, dungeon clears are hardly dominant, and finding a PuG is rarely an issue. Dungeon clears are only used by experienced groups that want to clear an area fast - which also results in cheaper rare skins.

If Dungeon running is not possible, why is that good? Once again, running is not so dominant that finding a real group is impossible, especially with the Z-Bounties. Running provides an alternative, one that does not hinder your play in the slightest.

And if UWSC's are not possible...will you're PuGway build see play then? No, still not. Instead you'll be shoehorned into "optimal" teams, which will still exclude many classes.

Quote:

You also point out that SF isn't the cause of most speed clears its just the best way to do things. Well if it is so good that 95% of all the elite area farms are composed of the same basic builds for almost 18 months, dont you think thats a little OP and should be fixed? (SF is the core of every elite build, the only thing that has changed is the dmg source, but its still tank and spank)

Manlyspike has the widest range of character classes used that I've ever seen, and it wasn't created because skills were nerfed, it was because other skills were made useful.

UWSC is the only one that actually runs a full Perma team (okay, -1). If that's really such a huge problem, then update UW so that 8 players can't go and solo 1/8th of the area each.

As for "OPed", that's a pure cop-out term. If the problem is stagnating builds, update skills so new builds become useful.

The problem is never that an area is "too easy" or that the game isn't "hard" anymore. How many players do you think actually give a damn about that? The attitude that taking away possibilities makes something more fun seems so ridiculous.

If you want to make things less stagnant, the better solution is to make improvements without creating artificial limitations on existing things. The problem with nerfing SF is that its not "changing the game", it's taking away a shiny toy and forcing you to rummage for the battered ones that you threw away before.

Quote:

The point about SF making running easy is that the only running builds were vow of silence dervishes, vow of silence lasts for 10 seconds, 12 with a 20% enchant mod. Barely enough time to recast it, also its worth while to note that its extremely hard for a inexperianced runner to do that. Now'a'days any old sin can run you anywhere aslong as they press 1 2 3 every 25 seconds or so.

And what's the problem with running being easy? How does that hurt the game any?

And don't give me any crap about not playing the game "properly". That's not a valid argument, ever.

Deakon · Oct 28, 2009, 01:11 PM // 13:11

I don't know that it will make a difference in the game but all the elitists on guru will start bitching about something different. So the only thing that I see that it will "help" is all the "s" and "f" keys on the keyboards of those who still think there's such a thing as a balanced PUG.

toocooltang · Oct 29, 2009, 04:31 AM // 04:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk_

Fast game play is never a problem if people want fast gameplay.

then go play quake or any other type of FPS game. The common explanation for not fixing current SCs is because it allows anyone to log on and clear UW 3 or 4 times in an hour then be done. This is never the case to do these clears you need EOTN ranks and thats hours and hours of griding

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk_

Okay, let's assume that things like dungeon speed clears are not possible after SF is nerfed. Why is that good? Unlike UWSC, dungeon clears are hardly dominant, and finding a PuG is rarely an issue. Dungeon clears are only used by experienced groups that want to clear an area fast - which also results in cheaper rare skins.

I am pretty sure dungeons were designed to provide more semi elite areas than previous campaigns. Pre-EOTN each campaign had 1-2 elite areas. You shouldn't be able to solo FOW, so why should you be able to solo a dungeon? The problem with SF and dungeons is the ablitity to solo ALL of them. Also dungeon SCs shouldn't happen in my opinion because rare items should stay rare and expensive. You know along time ago FOW armor was a sign of being a very experianced and rich player now it means nothing

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk_

If Dungeon running is not possible, why is that good? Once again, running is not so dominant that finding a real group is impossible, especially with the Z-Bounties. Running provides an alternative, one that does not hinder your play in the slightest.

Running is for lazy players, the majority of which have no idea about guildwars game play. If you really have no friends ingame, can't find a guild or a buddy on guru that is just sad. With one other person every dungeon can be done with effort. This game is pretty easy compared to many other games. If you can't figure out how to play then you really dont deserve to get your GWAMM or complete dungeons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk_

And if UWSC's are not possible...will you're PuGway build see play then? No, still not. Instead you'll be shoehorned into "optimal" teams, which will still exclude many classes.

I don't have a pugway build. I have no intrest in pugging anyways because 70% of the people out there just have discord heroes and have no idea about other builds, classes, team synergy, or effective builds, so in my opinion they are bad. I would prefer my guild, my heroes or just not do it over pugging

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk_

Manlyspike has the widest range of character classes used that I've ever seen, and it wasn't created because skills were nerfed, it was because other skills were made useful.

Point is for the last 18 months the meta has been. SF tank balls up several dozen mobs and then "insert XXX way spike here" kills them fast. Rinse and repeat and you have your end chest in record time. The other thing is SF tank puts up sliver armor and then uses PVE skills to finish off the mob, sometimes its the other way around.

UWSC is the only one that actually runs a full Perma team (okay, -1). If that's really such a huge problem, then update UW so that 8 players can't go and solo 1/8th of the area each.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk_

As for "OPed", that's a pure cop-out term. If the problem is stagnating builds, update skills so new builds become useful.

No need there are already plenty of useful skills out there besides SF.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk_

And what's the problem with running being easy? How does that hurt the game any?

The whole design of factions was to stop running. In prophs running was a HUGE problem because of constant scamming. The problem can be summarized in that you could make a presearing char, get to lvl 5 then find a run from Ascalon CIty to beacons and beacons to droks and have max armor on your lvl 5 char and play through the whole game with it being really really easy. Runs from LA to Sanctam Kay were also really popular. So considering ANET designed a whole chapter to counter running it certainly is seen in the design's eyes as a problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk_

And don't give me any crap about not playing the game "properly". That's not a valid argument, ever.

Really it comes down to this. Guildwars used to be a fun game with good players and a mature community overtime there has been a power creep with the addition of PVE skills, consets and heroes. Insane buffs to skills via PVE and PVP split has also really dumbed down the gameplay. The end result is this game is little more than a glorified version of the orginal mario which was really easy. For me I am quite annoyed that all the awesome farm builds in the proph only days were quickly nerfed once they became very popular but now SF and all its similar farms are left alone. I really want to know when was did farming become the acceptable end game for PVE?

dunky_g · Oct 29, 2009, 11:57 AM // 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by toocooltang

lots of words

To be honest i agree with most of what your saying...

.. but lay off the sugar

Perfected Shadow · Oct 29, 2009, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Well I don't know what anet's thinking now, probably gonna introduce a new dhuum quest that can't be done without a balanced party (based on halloween lead-ups?). If that's the route they choose to take, they're gonna have to do a bitchload of things...

Something stirs deep in fissure of woe
Something stirs deep in catacombs of kathandrax
Something stirs deep in shards of orr
Something stirs deep in rragar's menagerie
Something stirs deep in (insert shadow form farming dungeon)

qvtkc · Oct 29, 2009, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Agreed they should stop being gay about it and just nerf SF already.

Elephantaliste · Oct 29, 2009, 04:52 PM // 16:52

The right question, was buffing SF anything good to the game...
It just made players forget 600/smite because they got something worse to complain about.
If they dont nerf SF, be prepared for another buff...

Dusk_ · Oct 29, 2009, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by toocooltang

Lots of text involving opinions on what the game should be like.

That's all well and good, but it's meaningless. What you personally want the game to be has no bearing on what is good for the game.

You say running is bad. Fine. That's your opinion.

You say dungeon running is bad. Fine. That's your opinion.

You want rare items to stay rare and expensive. Fine. That's your opinion.

That doesn't make anything you say more right or more wrong.

Quote:

Really it comes down to this. Guildwars used to be a fun game with good players and a mature community overtime there has been a power creep with the addition of PVE skills, consets and heroes. Insane buffs to skills via PVE and PVP split has also really dumbed down the gameplay. The end result is this game is little more than a glorified version of the orginal mario which was really easy. For me I am quite annoyed that all the awesome farm builds in the proph only days were quickly nerfed once they became very popular but now SF and all its similar farms are left alone. I really want to know when was did farming become the acceptable end game for PVE?

You're seriously glorifying the "old" Guild Wars. This "good players and a mature community" you reminisce about was exactly the same as the one you have around now.

And the reason why SF is better for the game instead of the old farming builds is simple: The old farming builds were devoted to creating new gold. The influx of gold created massive inflation, which was bad for the game all around.

SF, for the most part, is limited entirely to rare item/skin farming, or simply exchanging gold between players (for running), which is generally much better for the game economy.

Martin Alvito · Oct 29, 2009, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk_

SF, for the most part, is limited entirely to rare item/skin farming, or simply exchanging gold between players (for running), which is generally much better for the game economy.

Have to take exception to this statement. The nice thing about people farming gold is that gold is functionally non-transferable for high end trading. Gold farming was hard on the new player, to be sure. "Necessities" like runes and materials get expensive when gold is plentiful. ANet doesn't like this model, because it increases the likelihood that a new player will get frustrated and quit before buying all of the expansions and bringing in friends.

When people farm ectos and armbraces, we get inflation in rare item markets. This happens because this farming effectively increases the amount of wealth players can move back and forth. The supply of those items is fixed or nearly fixed, so we see price increases.

Sure, the prices on the UW/FoW/EotN end chest skins that got farmed to death dropped as a result of SF. But the price of things that don't drop from those chests (eg: Crystallines) went up despite the fact that the game was raining zkeys (and therefore Crystalline drop chances) for over a year. Prices on fixed-supply items went into the stratosphere.

Any time trade markers are being created faster than they are being destroyed, you're going to have issues. Increasing the rate at which they are created only exacerbates those existing problems. All you do by pushing farmers out of gold and into ectos is change who is impacted by the externalities farmers create.